BIM IN ASSET MANAGEMENT MONTHLY FORUM 03-12-2025
DAVID J. CAREY Just to give you some insight on a couple of issues, I’ve had exactly the same with different entities. I run about 8 different versions of Teams and I nailed it with one of their advisors. Because about two weeks ago there was a major upgrade of Teams where what you’ve notice is it’s recording a transcription. And they’ve incorporated a software which is called Web Viewer 2 which is a partnership with Meta or Google to provide the transcription using AI tools.
And what you may notice, for those of you who have got sensitive calibration on your CPU, is that you actually need a GPU to cope with the processing power that this soaks up. So if you find that your laptop of 3 or 4 years overheats, it’s purely because it’s being asked to do much more that in was ever configured for or even feasibly considered for. And that’s the reason why bandwidth will start to stutter because it’s soaking it up from that.
So there is a background. You're not alone and they haven’t sorted out the wrinkles yet with the connections with Outlook, hence your problem of trying to create meetings, which if you duplicate and carry forward they then carry the attributes and the poor links. So it’s not your doctor, it’s us, doctors.
RICHARD FREER Thank you for that because we’ve been having nightmares in meetings. But if it’s a bandwidth issue that will be why people get thrown off.
GEORGE STEVENSON (shares screen). We’ve got BIM In Asset Management, it’s really evolved over the last couple of years and it’s building on what we’ve been doing over the last 5 years with BIM4Housing. The thing about BIM4Housing and BIM In Asset Management, we’re not talking about 3D modelling as being BIIM, we’re talking about better information management. And what we’ve done is set up 6 working groups, we did this 5 years ago, and the principle idea of this was to identify what information would be useful to construction from development and design. So what is it that design could do that would make it easier for construction and exactly the same with operations.
So the principle that we worked on was that certain areas could be improved, for example, producing data in a more standardised way. So we set up workstreams to do each of these things. Looking at process, a huge amount of work on fire safety and we’ve published information on that and also digital records. And they way in which we went about that was to bring together collaborative groups. And we were asked to lead the Golden Thread Initiative Asset & Survey Information group, which was really designed to help the government know what the industry experts felt was needed to complete the golden thread.
So under those circumstances we’ve run hundreds of workshops over the last 5 years where we’ve got, for example, all of those people around that table there are manufacturers, we’ve got designers coming together. But pretty well all of these really have been done on Teams and they’re all recorded and they’re all up on the website. One of the big challenges that we’ve got with the new regulations is there’s no explicit requirements. And that means that we’ve got lots of experts having their different interpretations of things. What we’re really trying to do is to make it so supply chains can get more consistent guidance and we can do that through reusable data libraries.
What we’ve also done, the team has set up a Miro board where you can go onto this and understand the regulations and also ask questions of the other experts. And we’ve got almost 100 people that have been involved in that. If you’re interested in getting involved in that and using the Miro board put ‘Miro’ in the chat. What we also did, we used this methodology to identify what actually the assets are doing. What risks are they mitigating? What do people do to them to stop them from working? And what information do we need to know about them? And we did this on a deep dive basis for 12 key safety critical assets. And we’ve kept that information up to date, we’ve been refreshing it every couple of years.
We’ve just done it, a team worked on it in September-October, and that’s now been published. So that’s up on the BIM4Housing website. And the sort of detail that we’ve got here is for each of the asset types, we’ve got fire doors, the detailed information that I think probably nobody else is providing. What we’ve also done is looked a things that could be standardised, like fire door inspections for example, being able to identify in a standardised way what good looks like in terms of a fire door inspection. And we’ve been recently working on the same for fire dampers, fire stopping and cavity barriers.
So if you’re interested in any of those standardised information sets you can download them from the BIM4Housing website. But also, if you’re interested in understanding more about how this glues together, then I’m going to show you something now. One of the big challenges with most of these assets is knowing where they are in the building. And we regularly find that even on brand new projects the asset teams have to send surveyors in to go and do manual surveys to actually identify where the assets are. And that findability is a big issue which we’re trying to crack.
Here. for example, we’ve got a few different software companies that are supporting the contractor and the asset team. And this is answering a specific question, where are the fire dampers in the building? So we’ve got an integration here with the Autodesk platform, but what we’re also doing, we’ve got integrated with the manufacturer’s data about the individual dampers that have beeb used. And then being able then to identify both what the damper is and also where it is in the building. So this is a very simple view of where that damper is. And by connecting it through to both the manufacturer’s information and the asset information that’s in the maintenance system, we’ve got something that then can relate better from a compliance perspective.
What we’ve also got is a link through to OpenSpace, an application that captures 360 photography for construction purposes. We’re really using it now for asset management, so reusing the same information several times. We can also capture information that’s been put into Sharepoint for the O&M information, including the manufacturer’s documentation which we’re tying back to product libraries that the manufacturers can then keep up to date themselves. So the principle here is that what we’re doing is capturing something once, do it well, verifying it and then making it available to be used many times.
And what we’ve now done here, this is connecting it back into SFG20 which is the UK standard for maintenance tasks, so we’re ten pulling all of the together. That’s a good example of how we can bring together various different software companies and service providers to work in a joined up way. And that’s the principle that we’ve got with the Golden Thread Taskforce. The Golden Thread Taskforce is to bring together a number of different software platforms and also people that are providing services, surveyors, contractors, people that are doing inspections. And they can then form tested solutions together. And therefore clients and people that own buildings can then come to them and bring together both the need and also what that solution is.
And by bringing together different providers and also working with classified standardised data libraries, it means that we can bring together a lot of the chaos that we’re currently working with in a more joined up way. And the Taskforce, if you’re interested in joining and being part of what we’re doing here, it’s a matter really of understanding what the golden thread is really about. But you’re very welcome and you’d be joining quite a lot of other leading organisations that have already taken an interest in this. These are some of the software companies that have already started working with us. We’ve got a cross-disciplinary type of environment, so therefore we’ve got the opportunity to make sure a lot of this stuff actually glues together.
And the process that we’re operating is really trying to address the fact that most BIM models are really as-designed rather than as-built. So, what we’re doing here is bringing together, the challenge really is that often if there is a BIM model and there’s CAD data, the CAD data may or may not have come from a BIM model. You might have some COBie data, hopefully you’d get some good O&Ms, you might have 360 photography. But the challenge is that they’re not connected. So that means that the only way of checking that information is to do it manually, And the result is that it often doesn’t get done. So what we’re doing here is brining those things together through integration so that we can remove the silos and therefore make stuff much more findable.
And doing that by bringing together the information in a way that is joined up and can then be verified maybe using 360 photography. So that it means that we’ve got something much quicker and easier to maintain. I’m going to skip on to a case study. One of the big challenges that we’ve got is that a lot of this information that’s coming through should be complying with the golden thread. And the golden thread really is a concept of bringing together key information. And Regulation 38 which is the fire & emergency file is something that is absolutely critical to the safe management of the building. But a lot of people don’t seem to appreciate that this is something by law the landlord has got to sign to say they’ve received it.
And the contractor has got to sign a declaration to say that they have provided it. And we’re certainly finding that that’s not necessarily really happening. Now why is that important? If this situation, for example, we’ve got fire breaks out in a kitchen, smoke is being generated. And what we’re doing is trying to make sure that the smoke doesn’t get into that stairwell there. And the way of protecting against that is through good compartmentation. Now that doesn’t mean just that the fire doors have got to be good, it means that all of the other things that go to make up that compartment have got to be sound. And we’ve got to assume that something will let us down, so therefore we need good smoke control systems, detection systems and also signage to get people out of the building.
Now, the challenge is that all of that can often be quite disconnected. So we may have a BIM model where we’ve got really good product information, but the important thing here is that that space there, which is a stairwell, is properly protected by the various different assets that go to make up the compartment. And it may be that there’s a range of different software applications being used to audit and keep that together. So what we’re doing here is we’re trying to find ways of getting all those different software applications to collaborate and share information about the assets that are being inspected. And what we’ve managed to do, we’ve got a lot of collaboration now.
At London Build we had Riskbase, who’s one of the leading inspection applications certainly in social care. We ran a workshop with them. We also did one with one of their major competitors Onetrace. So the point about this, Plan Radar, for example, and we had 200 people or so in the audience at each of these workshops. And one of the common questions that we asked was have you had a Regulation 38 pack of information that is satisfactory? And there’s been some real challenges with that. The purpose of bringing together all of this information, here is an indication here where we’ve got a BIM model and we’re trying it back to the fire plans.
We’re tying it back to fire strategy, so each of the spaces is part of a fire compartment. And what we’re then able to do is actually see that fire compartment in the context of the rest of the building. What we’re also doing here is bringing in information that’s been captured using a different software application called Boris. Really good information about where the fire stopping has been installed, but it’s just a document, it’s just a PDF. So what we’ve done, rather than the engineer or the FM having to open up hundreds of different drawings to find what’s been installed, we’ve interrogated that and pulled the information for each of the assets and their coordinates into the database, so we can then see where those fire stopping assets are.
So we’re turning it into intelligent data that can then be interrogated. So the information that was captured during the inspection can then be used by anybody else that has a need to maybe do checks and things. And part of this process is then to be able to bring together people that are doing different types of inspections and working up a retrospective fire strategy, for example, on existing buildings. Because it’s highlighted the fact that many buildings don’t have fire strategies. Frazer, could you just quickly explain to me what your company does and what you have in terms of fire engineers?
FRAZER ARGYROSS-FARRELL Yeah, there’s 41 of us within CHPK Fire Engineering, all from varying disciplines ranging from external wall fire risk assessment. New team which is FSA and obviously grassroots fire engineering. So we got involved a lot with this new thing called FSA which is the fire safety assessment which is basically looking at the building from an audit viewpoint, hat have we got, why it’s there. And we look at the existing fire strategies, quite often we find that they will be built off the content fire strategy rather than the completed design strategy.
So we will go back and then produce the retrospective fire strategy to help with the building owner so they understand what they’ve got and why they’ve got it. Because a lot of the problem is we end up standing in part of the building going why is that there, what’s this sprinkler head here for? Is that property protection, is it life safety> Why is the detection in this area. They’ve extended over 7 1/2 metres for a corridor, what systems are in play to allow that extension? And to have this all in something like what we’re talking about here would be fantastic because building owners then understand what it’s there for.
And we end up with the correct fire strategy drawing showing you where the compartmentation lines are, showing you where the fire zoning is from the fire alarm, smoke control layout. We’ve got kit all over the place all doing different things. Some are there as a requirement, some are there to mitigate risks. And it’s a fire engineer’s role and a fire risk assessor’s role is to understand what they’re there for and how they operate. And the key in getting this information right in all of this is to make sure you’re running off either the as-built fire strategy or the latest retrospective fire strategy.
And I think those are the two key points because we see so many times people say well, we’ve got the fire strategy and it’s actually only the concept fire strategy, which gives you a base overview of what you probably should have, not what you actually have.
GEORGE STEVENSON So where we’re going with this is basically providing people like Frazer’s fire engineers with much better information so they can do the job more quickly and more cost effectively. And one of the key things with that is having the right fire & emergency file. So Richard, is it possible for us to do the quick survey to see whether people are getting Regulation 38?
RICHARD FREER Jiss will put a link into the chat, it’s just one question but we’d really like to hear your answers on it.
GEORGE STEVENSON I’m going to skip back to what the law actually says that you’ve got to provide. And this is where I think there’s a lot of misunderstandings. There needs to be an as-built plan of what needs to be done. So if people can answer that, have you ever received a complete, and it’s important a complete and audited fire & emergency file?
RICHARD FREER Yes or no, have you ever received a complete fire & emergency file that complies with Regulation 38? If you know whether your organisation has received a complete file, then answer it. Or if you’re responsible for supplying that file.
ANDREW COULDRIDGE Just to add to that, the question have you ever received a complete fire & emergency file that complies with Reg 38. Yes no, I’d like to see don’t know on there because I don’t know. Yes, I get Reg 38 but is it full in its entirety? I don’t know. Have I got what I'm supposed to have? I don't know. What am I supposed to have?
RICHARD FREER I think for the purpose of this if you don’t know, put on. But I agree with you, it should have been on there. But for the purpose of this I would put no if you don’t know whether you have or not.
GEORGE STEVENSON At risk of leading the people, I think everybody has voted by now so I shouldn’t compromise it too much. At London Build we did this on 4 individual panel sessions on the fire safety stage. So therefore you can be confident that the audience was certainly interested and knowledgeable. And there was 200 people in each of the audiences, so that principally is 800 people, and not one person put their hands up which I think is very telling.
RICHARD FREER We’ve got the results in from our poll. And we’ve got 14% who said yes. Excellent, but still a very small percentage. Anybody who’s interested in they can do or need retrospective fire strategies? Anybody who can do that or has the need for that, put into the chat ‘strategy’.
GEORGE STEVENSON What we’ve done, our normal way of working is to identify an issue, and there’s certainly an issue with people having current up to date fire strategies. And there’s all sorts of reasons why that’s challenging, in many cases because there aren’t very many fire engineers. There’s far too much work for the fire engineers that are in place. So what we try and do is come up with ways that we can ease the problem and that’s what the workstreams do. So we’ve got a dedicated workstream that has met twice now and they’ve got another couple of meetings to go, and we’ll produce some guidance from that.
And the principle is bringing together people that can either do fire strategies or have got ways of making them easier for people to do and more useable. So if you’re interested in getting involved in that workstream then if you put ‘fire strategy’ into the chat we’ll invite you to the next meeting. And that also includes the Regulation 38 work as well. Because broadly, you can’t really do a fire strategy unless you know what’s in the building. And therefore if you don’t have a proper fire & emergency file then it makes it more difficult for the fire engineers to work.
RICHARD FREER George and I and Jiss have been attending a couple of very interesting meetings run by a very impressive lady who I’m going to introduce now who’s going to give an overview on what you are doing and how anybody can get involved.
MARGARET SACKEY Before I refer to the university’s focus in terms of Building Safety Act compliance and competence, the Reg 38 question you asked and you showed 14% on the results, that people had received and seen. I’d be very interested to understand what they’ve received. I was down for yes because in University College London we have a very experienced fire safety team who if they’re allowed to feed in to the projects, and they are, they are very adamant about the Reg 38 information. Not just having it, but actually making sure that it’s checked and fit for purpose.
So I think that the key is having the relevant specialist on the project. If people don’t know what to ask for then you won’t get it. But if people have got the fire safety team, and we have a very experienced fire safety team, most universities do. So coming back to answer your question Richard, we were really privileged at UCL to host a Building Safety Act conference, 3rd of September this year, online as well as in person. We had about 230 people in total, 156 in person, nearly 90 online. And the main things coming out from that conference where the raising or awareness in terms of all of the things that you’re talking about here.
And it’s absolutely fantastic what you’re doing, George and Richard. It's not just about getting information, that information has to be linked to the building. It has to be intelligent, it has to be relevant. So as a result of that conference we put out feedback to attendees and what we’ve done, with the kind assistance of USHA, the universities safety and health association, all health & safety people in universities, and alongside BIM4Housing, BIM In Asset Management, the Golden Thread Taskforce a series of workshops.
So what’s happened as a result of that conference, workshops are being planned and we’ve got a first workshop this Friday 5th at 3pm on Teams, raising aspects of what came out of the conference. We were very privileged to have Dame Judith Hackitt speaking at the conference, the Building Safety Regulator, CROSS, eminent persons in the industry. Those that know, obviously associated project safety and the Building Safety Alliance. So basically going forward these workshops, very similar to this but university focused and NHS because the universities work alongside in hospitals now.
And helping colleagues in the built environment to really apply the new rules. We’ve all seen what’s on LinkedIn, we’ve all seen what’s in the trade press. This is law, it’s not optional it’s legislation and we have to comply with it. We’ve got new duty holders, whether we like it or we don’t. There are new duty holders and we’ve got work to do. As George just said, the smart thing to do is to collaborate, the smart thing to do is to make sure you’ve got the tying in of information. Design, construction, inter-operations and maintenance and, of course, into end of life for some of our buildings.
RICHARD FREER If you’re interested in coming along to any of Margaret’s workshops put ‘Marge’ in the chat.
MARGARET SACKEY The other thing to say, Judith Hackitt when I met her last week at Resi build at Excel, she’s very interested to know what’s going on in the universities and she wants to know of the outputs from these workshops.
RICHARD FREER George, do you want to swing into the launch of the Smart Golden Thread?
GEORGE STEVENSON (shares screen). One of the interesting things at the moment is that there’s a lot of talk over the years about digital twins and the like. And we’re not really dealing with the fact that the relationship between the physical building and the logical building, which is the way Smart systems tend to look at things, what’s connected to what and what’s it doing, that’s not been working very well. So what we’ve been doing is looking at how we can use Smart technology to add intelligence into BIM models.
For example, if we’ve got 360 photographs one way of doing that is to get people that have got a lot of knowledge about what they can see in those 360 photographs, which are actually the as-builts. And then use that to train new people, but also to train AI. SO one of the things that we’ve been doing is using this to capture information about what an expert sees that valve is and then using that to train Large Language Models to be able to identify those things. Now, that’s not easy, we’re not saying it’s cracked yet, but we’re well on the way to doing it.
Also being able to bring together 360 photographs and turn them into intelligent asset data. And what that does, we end up with a Smart 360 photograph, so the 360 photograph makes things more findable. It also means that we can connect it back into other processes. We can tie it back to various different technologies that are capturing the 360 photos. And also we can then relate it back to the many great software applications that are being used during construction. Now remember this is BIM In Asset Management, so what we then need to do is look at what the steps are to actually bring that about. So what we’ve therefore got is that as a coherent set of information.
I’m now going to introduce another company who is specialising in this area. They’ve come up with some very interesting and novel way of integrating the network side of things into the wider process. The two people that we’ve got on the call it’s quite interesting. Aleksandr is joining us from Hong Kong and he’s 8 hours ahead of us. Could you just explain briefly what your technology is doing?
ALEKSANDR SUTYAGIN Our basic idea is to connect the control logic with 3D model and the BIM model. And to make it in the Smart way. (shares video, what follows is the audio from the video). The desktop application created into Autodesk Revit. In essence, they function as a single unified application. It is possible to import architectural entities from Autodesk Revit for use when placing technological equipment and automation devices. However, these entities can also be created manually. Let's switch to the desktop application for a more detailed overview.
Technological units and automation components are placed within a tree of architectural entities. Let's examine one of these units in more detail. A unit is a fully customisable entity. Every element within the unit can be configured according to the user's requirements. A technological unit can contain both automation devices and any other required technological elements. For example, let's place a sensor inside the air duct of a ventilation unit. We simply take it from the catalogue and move it to the required position.
As a result, the device, together with all its internal complexity, becomes part of the project and is ready for further use.
Now let's look at the level of detail available when modelling an automation device using the example of an actuator for a control valve. Here you can see a selector that allows you to quickly locate the required device based on defined parameters. For example, let's consider this actuator at the top of the form we see a set of the actuator's basic fields. It is possible to specify more detailed information about the actuator, which can later be used for calculations and the selection of related equipment or suitable cabling. Below this we see information regarding the actuators, connection terminals and their purpose.
These data are used for the automatic selection of PLC control modules and for generating detailed wiring diagrams further down we also see a list of valves compatible with this actuator, which can likewise be used in equipment selection algorithms. Let us return to the topic of creating diagrams. There is no need to design a technological unit diagram from scratch. You can use the catalogue of standard design solutions and select one that suits your task. The catalogue can be expanded by the user. This means you can create your own set of readymade solutions that can be reused in other projects. You can use a template solution when creating a new diagram or add it to an existing one.
It is important to emphasise that a readymade solution from the catalogue includes both technological elements and automation devices. In addition, the template contains all other necessary data. In essence, it is a fully prepared part of the project. Let's look at the process of creating an automation panel that will control a technological unit or a group of units. To do this, we need to associate the technological unit with an automation panel, either one created specifically for this purpose, or an already existing one. Let's select a new panel from the list. We can define a new place or use the default controller.
Let's consider the second option as it is the most commonly used to connect automation devices to the panel. All we need to do is drag the required technological unit together with all the contents we previously created in the schema editor based on a template into the desired panel. After saving, the following will occur. The system will calculate the required number of controller expansion modules and related devices such as power Supply modules, terminal sections, terminal blocks and much more. It will also calculate cable connections and contribute conductors across the modules.
As a result, we obtain a fully prepared automation solution for controlling a technological unit or a group of units. Let's look at how the application interacts with the 3D model. All equipment placed on the drawing is represented in the 3D model and there is a bidirectional link between the model item and the schematic item. We can select any element in the model and view its project data, its ID which automation panel it is connected to and which cable is used. We can also remove a device from the model and lace it back again if needed.
We can view the cable routes which are generated automatically when schematic equipment is placed in the model, as well as the list of cables used. Additionally, we can select any model element and jump to the schematic where it is used, obtaining complete information about it, which technological unit it belongs to, where it is located and what it is connected to. (The audio from the video ends here).
GEORGE STEVENSON Thank you, Aleksandr. What we need to do is then look at that from a practical operational perspective. And what we’ve got is now a section, I’m going back to what we’re doing with that technology to make it easier to deal with some real world problems. Stephen from Iris, could you just explain what we’re trying to do, we’ve got another workstream that’s operating at the moment with regard to Awaab’s Law. So could you put some context behind what we’re doing in terms of sensors for tackling a particular problem?
STEPHEN WESTLEY Awaab’s Law came into play October 2025 and it effects 4 million social houses in the UK. So before the law came in it was really up to the landlord if the tenant had an issue with mould, then the landlord had no timeline of to actually take action. But from October now they have literally days to actually take action to do something for the tenant. So what we do, we’re nothing to do with mould, we’re a telecom company. We build sensors, so we build all kinds of sensors in the UK, from vibration, energy monitoring.
But there’s a heavy focus on environmental sensors. And Awaab’s Law is a kind of a catalyst for using it as a kind of trojan horse to highlight how air quality can affect the wellness, not just in homes but also in schools and in buildings as well. So what we do is we just do a small part of the puzzle to help solve or compliment the law that’s come in. So all we do is provide the sensor and the data that people can make better decisions around how to take action. So the bare minimum is temperature and humidity plus time.
So there’s a lot of science around if temperatures are at a certain level and humidity is at a certain level for a certain time, there’s a chance that mould may grow in those areas. You can then go to more extremes and start adding particular matter, so dust, to see if there is an increase in dust. And also if you want to add a TBOC, so what chemical elements are in the area as well. So how we deliver this is through a sensor to a dashboard and that then gives the end users the insights into if that property is at risk of mould growing or if it’s a safe environment.
GEORGE STEVENSON What I’d like to do is put this in a context, Stephen. So what you’re doing at the moment, you’re providing an important component part of what is an overall solution of what a landlord would need. And that needs to be integrated, for example, with other solutions. Maybe their help desk system, the technology of being able to maybe address the…because what you’re doing is providing something that prevents the conditions occurring that causes the problem.
Other people are having to deal with it. And David from Mould Check showed us some technology last week that I was hoping that he’d be able to explain today which is a spray that can deal with…it is’s come out of the food processing industry and it looks as though it’s quite an interesting technology that can add into this. So what we’re doing with the Golden Thread Taskforce is bringing together different people that have got different solutions so that we can then come up with something that a landlord can come along to and find something that all works.
And the aspect of that is the Taskforce group that we’ve got, within that group we’ve got some people who are landlords, we’ve got contractors, we’ve got some technology companies, software companies. And if you’re interested, if you’re trying to tackle damp and mould at the moment put ‘Awaab’s’ or ‘damp and mould’ in the chat and we can invite you to that next meeting.
RICHARD FREER We need to open this up to have some people to have a chat…Awaab’s Law, who’s got some questions or something to say on Awaab’s Law? Debbie Carlton, you put something very interesting in the chat.
DEBBIE CARLTON My expertise is competency management and particularly using AI technology in that domain. And I have my own competence and knowledge base of all the built environment, occupational standards, competence frameworks etc. And there is practically no coverage of mould safety at all in any of the current stuff. And despite bringing this up to what was the precursors to SkillS England three years ago, there’s still nothing in the standards yet.
So for example in social housing there’s a role called a property maintenance operative. They’ve just updated it again, nothing around mould safety. So there’s a problem, we’re going to need more people to be aware of this, from understanding it basically to diagnosing it to solutions and the skills system just isn’t fit for purpose to support it.
RICHARD FREER Has anybody here got some experiences that they want to share? Or an issue they’ve had that they managed to sort out, or didn’t?
STEPHEN WESTLEY I think what Debbie just said. We started investigating the opportunity that Awaab’s Law was going to bring in about 2 years ago. So we started talking to different levels of specialists, or so-called specialist in mould. And you could literally put 2 people in a room and one would argue black was white and white was black on how to solve the problem. And there’s so many weak spots in this new issue that’s come to the forefront since last month.
And there’s a lot of head scratching going on how they’re going to deal with it. There’s a lot of bad information out there as well. It is a real mess, the more you delve into mould you’ll see what a big issue it is for every housing association. And it’s going to now move into the private sector. So Wes Streeting, on the day of the launch he said yeah, this isn’t just going to be for social housing, this is going to go into private in 2026. And there’s just not enough qualified people out there.
I think there’s a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon to say they’re mould experts all of a sudden, but where is the certification? Where is the guide to say yeah, you’re then accredited to a certain standard on mould?
RICHARD FREER Does it exist?
DEBBIE CARLTON No, it doesn’t. There’s a bit opportunity here and maybe that’s something we could look to action on this, George, who would be a good certifying body. It’s even getting most people need to have basic understanding of building physics, building pathology, without getting to the detail of the solutions. And that doesn’t exist. And this week Skills England have just published its standards skills classification. It’s an interim classification, again nothing in that about this domain.
So we need to influence this as well, but I think there is an opportunity to put up some kind of certification scheme, but do it in an intelligent way that can adapt, particularly to the evolving narrative around this.
RICHARD FREER You said it’s a huge opportunity, it’s a huge opportunity for a bunch of cowboys to make a lot of money, isn’t it?
STEPHEN WESTLEY Yeah, seriously. We engage with quite a lot of experts, but there’s a lot of shady characters out there who are just doing the bare minimum or doing things that could actually cause harm. Once you speak to people who have lived and breathed mould for a long time, a lot of people are going to make money quickly…
RICHARD FREER It’s a totally different skills set, because you’re not talking about something that’s just in the building, you’re talking about something that’s within the building, actually in the bricks.
GEORGE STEVENSON Is there anybody on the call who is working in this area that’s either addressing mould? Have we got any contractors that are doing the work? We’ve had some people put their names in the chat to maybe get invited to the next workstream, so I think that’s the next step with this. I think actually it’s a really good indication of what we’re doing, why the Golden Thread Taskforce is important. Because what we can do. Stephen has already participated in a couple of the workshops.
And there’s a couple of people that are there who are ostensibly competitors of Stephen’s, but the beauty is because we’re getting people in the same room there’s more work in this area than anybody can actually do on their own. And we’ve got the opportunity to peer review what the solutions are. And actually challenge them and understand them and then work together.
RICHARD FREER We are running an Awaab’s Law challenge. Now as you can appreciate, to solve and understand this issue is not just about a one person, one expert, it’s about a whole team getting together and saying right, what do we need and what is the solution. One of or guys Alex is co-leading with George the Awwab’s Law workstream and he’s actually got a team together, they’ve already had meetings, who will be putting forward their proposed solution and best in class methodology.
So I encourage any of you out there who is interested, consider getting a little team together or being part of a team to join the challenge. There are real world prizes here, you’ll get something very nice…we’ve got a number of options, a 360 camera, different companies are offering software licences and the like for free. So if you’re interested in getting involved in the Awaab’s Law challenge put ‘challenge’ in the chat.
GEORGE STEVENSON What we’re trying to do with that is get innovation coming through so that we can each learn from the good ideas that others have got. Because this isn’t something that people should be looking at a particular commercial edge on, it’s something that we should be doing as a group. But it’s a good idea to have a bit of competition with some sort of acceleration on that. Because there’s also the issue with Awaab’s Law or with damp and mould, there’s a variety of reasons it happens and it’s a matter really of understanding what those are so that things can be prevented, but also people can come up with innovative ways of dealing with the issue.
RICHARD FREER Can I just add that with anything associated with the Taskforce, but not solely the Taskforce, we very often will send you an invite for a quick 15 minute one-to-one chat with one of our steering group, with George or other experts. So if you’re interested put ‘one-to-one’ in the chat. But even if you’re not you may still be lucky enough to get an invite.
GEORGE STEVENSON So the beauty of the collaboration that we’ve got is that we’re bringing together people, and I’m certainly learning a lot of new technologies and new people. For example, the presentation that Aleksandr has just given to us earlier is something that I probably wouldn’t have come across, but it is novel. There’s a lot of people here that probably aren’t involved in Smart buildings or designing Smart buildings, but they may be involved in maintaining them. They may be involved in insuring them or even just using them.
So part of the exercise of this is to be able to tap in to various different knowledgeable people who have got a certain part of the jigsaw that can go to make up an overall solution. So what we’re doing, Aleksandr, the technology that they’ve produced, we think we can use in different ways also for asset management. So just as what Aleksandr was doing there was tying together a logical network of how devices are supporting certain spaces in the building and then tying it back to a 3D model, we believe that we can do the same using 360 photographs of existing buildings.
Now that’s a real breakthrough because it means that we can then start to assign against the things that you see in the building what network they’re part of. So if anybody is interested in looking at that sort of reverse engineering of BMS systems, then we’ve got a bit of a presentation or discussion. I’ve got an expert who’s about to join who can explain how we can do that. But also if you’re interested in talking with Aleksandr and BIMdance on that particular topic then if you put ‘BIMdance’ in the chat we can pick up on that as well.
Just as Aleksandr is 8 hours behind us the next person I’m going to invite on is Steve Jones and he’s in the US. I met Steve a few weeks ago, but his background is very useful from our perspective, he used to work for Johnson Controls. And one of the big problems that most of the FMs that we work with come across is closed systems and how do you then be able to turn them into something that can then be more easily managed.
STEVE JONES (shares screen). Just a little bit of background. We are focused on the retrofit and upgrade market for buildings with legacy building automation systems. So you guys shared a lot of great information on making assets findable and once you find the asset what are all the attributes of that asset and so forth. We’re focused on the building automation operations aspect. So once you’ve gotten all of that information at hand and available, now what’s happening in real time. And I’m going to start out with a quick overview of BACnet and what it is.
BACnet is an acronym that stands for building automation and control network. It’s an international communication standard that all building automation manufacturers follow. For instance here in the US, the number is I think approaching 90% of the building infrastructure manufacturers follow the BACnet standard. It started out to control heating and air conditioning. I asked ChatGPT to help me out, how do I very quickly present what is the power of BACnet? And it came up with this graphic. And I think it does a very nice job.
Basically, in real time BACnet allows all manufacturer’s products to talk to each other, to share data and so on and so forth. So that’s the state of the art today. But the reality is when a building gets constructed there’s not going to be a major renovation for say 25-30 years, so we’ve got a lot of installed base of legacy systems before BACnet was introduced. And the data is locked inside of those systems because it’s proprietary and each manufacturer did their own thing in the early days of building automation. And so that means customer lock-in, that means maintainability issues, compatibility issues and so forth.
So we developed a set of gateways that understand how to talk to these legacy systems and we make those legacy systems look like current generation BACnet technology. Therefore now this legacy building can participate in the BACnet ecosystem i.e. any new generation building automation control or value added application that subscribes to the BACnet protocol can now utilise the data from that building. And the alternative is you need to shut down your building in extreme cases, rip everything out and replace it. That means a capital investment, that means very disruptive to your building and business operations.
By putting our gateway in place you on day one can get access to that data that was previously locked in the system. It can now be consumed by any BACnet aware controller or application to start adding value to the building. Consuming that data creating actionable items.
GEORGE STEVENSON Obviously probably 80% of the audience, including me, doesn’t really understand what BACnet is and now is not the time for us to explain that. But what we want to do is get over to the community that if you’ve got a building that’s got a BMS system in it then there are ways that the community, Steve for example and others within this group, can help us unlock that closed system. And also you’ve got technology that will seek out where assets are in the building.
STEVE JONES Absolutely. So we’ve used the fact that BACnet is the glue that allows everything to talk to everything else in the building. And what we’ve done is in the centre you’ll see our device, it is talking to legacy systems that were manufactured by Johnson Controls 25-30 years ago.
RICHARD FREER Is BACnet just US, or is it international?
STEVE JONES It is international. Here in the US close to 90% of all buildings are being done with BACnet. If you look around the world, depending on where you are it’s close to that number. In other places it’s just beginning to be adopted.
GEORGE STEVENSON Steve, could we stop at that and just ask the audience now. Is anybody interested in this topic from a point of view of buildings that they’re actually occupying? Or buildings that they’re working on?
RICHARD FREER Put ‘BAC’ in the chat and we’ll pull something together on that because I think there’s going to be a lot of interest, just from the notes on the comments.
GEORGE STEVENSON OK, great, we’ll set something up with Steve, one of his colleagues Aaron who’s got another part of this jigsaw. And also with Aleksandr and some other people we can pull this together.
STEVE JONES From a business standpoint, we move away from the technology a little bit. Now instead of having to have a major CapEx investment to rip everything out of your building and replace it, very disruptive. You still end up upgrading the legacy systems in the building, you do it over time in small pieces, it becomes OpEx projects essentially. So you’re putting the control back in the hands of the building owner, when can I afford to incrementally do an upgrade.How can I best manage it so it doesn’t destroy the operations of my business in the process.
RICHARD FREER In keeping with the international flavour of this meeting, George, hit us with Hong Kong.
GEORGE STEVENSON We went over to Hong Kong about a year ago and that then led to us doing a presentation to the Construction Industry Council of Hong Kong about 2 weeks ago. And there was about 700 people attended that webinar. And as a result of that and the work that we’ve been doing over the last couple of years. I’ll put that in the chat, there’s two presentations there, one by me and one by Paul Oakley, who’s a specialist in standards. He wrote the 19650 Part 2 annex for Hong Kong, so there’s a strong relationship between the UK and Hong Kong in this particular regard.
And we’ve established champions in Hong Kong. And we’re lucky enough that one of these has joined us, Danny Ho from OpenSpace. Just explain to me the situation that you’ve got, obviously all of this we did two weeks ago and then obviously Tai Po, that’s your Grenfell, isn’t it?
DANNY HO Yeah, absolutely. Let me give you some background about myself. I have been in CAFM or IWMS technology market for over 30 years, with all of the major vendors, building lifecycle stuff. So BACnet is a familiar face to me because of work with intelligent building systems. I’ve been in discussion with George about some of the digital asset stuff, but certainly to say the Tai Po fire, I think you guys see that on the news. That’s a fire accident happened in Hong Kong, so far we have 159 people die and still and still 31 people are missing. Sometimes people compare it with the Grenfell Tower case in UK a few years back.
Actually I recall when I first met with George I said it’s my vision and mission to basically improve, trying to transform the industry and how people manage building lifecycle. But not until the fire I think the government is panicked, in a way. They’re trying to find ways to see regulatory stuff, they arrested some people, the main contractor for the renovation and all of this stuff. And then ICC the anti-corruption department also involved. So I think we’re still suffering from this sadness. In a way it’s an opportunity for us to check out the Golden Thread Taskforce type of discussion.
And in fact Dave and myself had our initial meeting last weekend and we have decided we have to do something together. So in case I would like to call for invitation, if you have friends, contacts that are connected to Hong Kong, or even Asia Pacific, just let us know. We’re recruiting experts from the field. We have BIM experts, we have compliance experts, we have FM and operation people as well.
GEORGE STEVENSON The key thing here is if you’re interested in maybe providing some support to Hong Kong at this very difficult time then please put ‘Hong Kong’ in the chat. Also if you want to learn from what they’re doing there as well, because they’ve got some very advanced technologies in Hong Kong. And Paul Sheedy for example, he’s shown in the past some of the work that they’ve done on fire safety technology in Shanghai. On this international flavour, we’re also establishing a small team in Nigeria. Olu, could you introduce yourself, I think you’ve got something to show us.
OLUDOLAPO OJELABI I’ve been in the tech construction, tech space in Nigeria Africa for quite a while now. This Taskforce, this is my first time here but I’ve watched most of the past meetings that you’ve had and that’s what brought us to this moment. I’d like to share what we’ve done so far about the Nigerian Chapter of the Golden Thread Taskforce. I’ll be talking about the need and the framework and approach where implementing and establishing the Nigerian Chapter. And also what we’ve done so far.
Early signals have shown us that the patterns are the same in the UK and in Nigeria. Fragmented information existing in silos, inconsistent handover, we have the same. Gaps in lifecycle information, we have the same. And to add on top of that we have frequent collapses which are the extreme outcomes of these challenges. So Nigeria is quite an ideal candidate for the Golden Thread Taskforce, in terms of getting the information joined together such that the quality is higher, it’s complete, it’s consistent and it’s means throughout the lifecycle or assets.
Nigeria has a very large market, estimates of 30-40 billion and like I mentioned before building safety is a serious issue. We need to get better at quality control, we need to get better at record keeping at a higher state. We need to get better at making sure that information is transparent. Now, technology is available, especially with the Tier 1 companies. We already have 360 camera data being captured, but it’s not structured properly sufficiently for safety physical asset information. We don’t have high adoption yet, but there is high potential.
So the opportunity is there. We have skilled professionals, we have organisations that have the will, they just don’t have the structure. So looking at the Nigerian Chapter, we are working to ground it in the UK framework so that it’s an extension of the work that you have done here, the amazing work you’ve been doing. And we understand that the local reality is a bit different, so we are counting on the UK Chapter to be hands on to volunteer to help us adapt some of the framework that you’ve already created for the Nigerian reality.
We are already talking with smart and knowledgeable people who had decades of experience to come on board. And what we’ve done so far is to reach out to a couple of Tier 1 companies and organisations. Lagos Business School, Primetech, Cappa & D’Alberto and they are extremely interested. We’ve also reached out to individuals who have been advocating for change over the years and the interest is very strong. So, I hope that we will get volunteers who will be willing to go on this journey with us.
GEORGE STEVENSON I think the important thing here is that we’re doing work and have been doing over the last 4 or 5 years which we’re now applying to all sorts of different sectors. In other words, the work that we’ve done in housing we’ve applied to hospitals. The work that we’re doing in hospitals is being applied now to universities. Now, given the fact that most of the work that we’re doing is being done remotely, why can’t we provide services, our expertise, into Nigeria, into Hong Kong.
So it opens up a really strong market for the professionals in our community to be able to apply their knowledge and learning to win fee earning commissions in different countries. And I’m hoping that the Golden Thread Taskforce group can therefore come up with some coherent solutions that can help Olu in Nigeria, but also certainly as far as Danny is concerned and the team in Hong Kong as well. So if you’re interested in either of those circumstances please sing up to the Golden Thread Taskforce, but also give us an indication of whether you’ve got a particular interest in providing solutions elsewhere. Either as individuals or as companies that you're working for.
RICHARD FREER So put ‘Nigeria’ into the chat if you have a particular interest in knowing more and getting involved, as an individual or as an organisation. And if you're interested in the broader stroke of getting involved in the Taskforce itself, just put ‘Taskforce’ in the chat and we will be in touch with you.
GEORGE STEVENSON I would also say remember that we’re all volunteers. So, one of the things is just bear with us if we don’t get back to you as quickly as you might expect and by all means chase us because we’re all passionate about making this work.
RICHARD FREER OK, Taskforce, Nigeria and Hong Kong. And earlier we had the Miro board, Awaab’s Law and for Smart buildings put ‘Smart’. And if you’re interested in the hospital, NHS and university angle of all of this then put ‘Marge’ in the chat. Christine is saying we need more data people involved, you are absolutely right, we do, bring some in if you could.
DEBBIE CARLTON What kind of data people?
RICHARD FREER The 14th of January will be the next forum meeting, you’ll be receiving invites very shortly. OK, what a full and eventful meeting and great responses from all of you.
GEORGE STEVENSON I’m encouraged that people are continuing to keep an interest in what we’re doing. And obviously if you have any suggestions that you want to make I’m very happy to pick up on those.
RICHARD FREER IT data estate people, Debbie, that’s what Christine is talking about.
CHAT
Debbie Carlton (Unverified)…. George is there competency analytics capabilities included in GT platform approach?
Christine Milling (External)…. Each application is likely to hold its own unique asset id. You would need to coordinate so systems know they are actually specifying the same asset
Christine Milling (External)… Do organisations have some overarching guidance on fire strategies, so that when they have multiple buildings, can ensure the same methodology is used for all their buildings
Pierre Venter (External)… Andrew, great catch. The Dont know means there is a session required to expand this - Basic knowledge
marsackey (Unverified)… Thank you all and thank you George & Richard. If your team can send the invitation on to those who have indicated interest - would be appreciated 👷♀️👍
Pierre Venter (External) @Aleksandr. Is the integration of the objects platform made with the design authoring apps?Are the integrations transferred to the GC/Sub-Contractor for update? The As-Constructued/As-Installed data is then populated.? My approach from a Design approach, connecting the steps to handover.
Christine Milling (External)…. When does the model get built? Are you confirming whiat elements are actually being used or do elements get put in when their presence is confirmed?
Gordon Pringle (External)… Interesting Tech Aleksander. I've a monitor that I'd like to discuss to possibly incorporate into your process please.
Christine Milling (External)…… Where do sensors get placed? in a unit, a corridor??
Debbie Carlton (Unverified)…. A key challenge is there is practically no coverage in any occupational standards, competence frameworks & associated qualifications that covers mould safety....unbelievable and 'bodies' responsible very slow at updating standards
Christine Milling (External)… I think you need to talk about where sensors should be placed. A way to integrate sensor data so it can actually be monitored, particularly where an organisation has systems
Aleksandr Sutyagin (External)… The model could be updated. But the idea is that Revit is only one of the possible integrations. We chose Revit for collaboration purposes during the pre-construction stage. You can integrate our DataHub with 360photo, for example, and connect to as-built Smart Schematics.
Christine Milling (External)… I think skills would need to cover 1. identifying mould and its spread and also how to effectively get rid of it from the environment
Debbie Carlton (Unverified)…. It is also a British export opportunity as UK not the only country with this problem
Robert Gould (External)… Sounds like a good opportunity for the RICS to step in with robust advice/regulation etc.
Piotr Bytnar (External).. Ventilation and envelope issue - usually. How to change that without gutting the building? HVAC in-built is the only way, but then that is an additional running cost. - CHALLANGE
Tim Freeman (External)… Definitely interested from a PAS retrofit coordination and design perspective. We collect D & M data and are modelling archetypes
Debbie Carlton (Unverified).. I am working with BE-ST (Construction Innovation Centre) and we are doing upskilling interventions in building physics....free hands on training & e-learning. If interested contact me
Robert Gould (External)… https://www.rics.org/consumer-guides/damp-and-mould
Stephen Westley iris-iot.com (Unverified)… A bit of insight on Awaabs and our part of a solution. https://iris-iot.com/internet-of-things/mould-a-silent-threat-to-health-and-housing-compliance/
Debbie Carlton (Unverified).. https://www.rics.org/consumer-guides/damp-and-mould
Christine Milling (External)…. I think there needs to be a data integration group. I always find it lovely to watch polished presentations but when you have a building in operation it can be very difficult to being agile and leexible to intregrate new data requirements. That's why most management systems get outdated in no time
Pierre Venter (External)… Aleksandr, its not the cloud issue, its the integration with Revit for example.The modules and exchange from design to fabrication. Its better to have a chat, i think
Christine Milling (External)…. I am playing devil’s advocate, however it seems that Steve Jones is now picking this up in his presentation.
Debbie Carlton (Unverified).,,… Is BACNet a international standard or US only?
Debbie Carlton (Unverified)…. Is there a UK body that promotes BACNet?
Pierre Venter (External)… Integration with Design and Handover requirements - Crucial. Esp with Existing Bldg Conditions
marsackey (Unverified)…. In UCL we have two buildings in Dagenham that benefited from great collaboration. This BIM Model used by Facilities Management Team and Building Users for their research projects. Is anyone here using the Matterport system - connecting BIM Model with Asset information and in H&S hazards. This is very much possible and needs good collaboration between design, construction, operation and operational management.
Pierre Venter (External)… There was a post today on LinkedIn, device for lighting, etc that would report on status to the resp person. Useful
John Taylor (External)…. CIBSE has good links with ASHRAE, who developed BACnet. I think the main industry association for building controls in general is BCIA - Building Controls Industry Association. They have training on BACnet
Debbie Carlton (Unverified)
STRUCTURED ACADEMIC SUMMARY
1. Context and Purpose of the Forum
The December Forum brought together asset managers, technologists, engineers, academics, and international partners to examine developments in digital asset information, fire safety, Smart buildings, damp and mould compliance (Awaab’s Law), and the expanding Golden Thread Taskforce model. The forum’s purpose was to improve information quality, regulatory compliance, and cross-disciplinary collaboration across the built environment.
2. Technology and Collaboration Challenges
Participants reported significant problems following the latest Microsoft Teams updates. New GPU-intensive AI features and enhanced transcription tools caused overheating, lag, increased bandwidth demand, and dropped sessions. These issues exposed digital-readiness gaps across organisations and highlighted the growing resource-intensity of collaboration platforms.
3. BIM in Asset Management Workstreams & the Golden Thread
The forum reviewed progress across six existing workstreams originally developed under BIM4Housing. These workstreams deliver structured information sets, reusable data libraries, and expert-driven guidance now increasingly relied upon to meet Golden Thread expectations. The work supports consistent information governance across design, construction, operations, and maintenance.
4. Asset Findability and Integration Challenges
Fire safety case studies demonstrated persistent challenges in locating safety-critical assets such as fire dampers. Examples showed how BIM models, manufacturer product data, 360° imagery, maintenance standards, and O&M documentation can be integrated into a unified system, transforming disconnected files into interrogable digital records.
5. National Gaps in Regulation 38 Compliance
Polling indicated that few attendees had ever received a complete, audited Fire and Emergency File (Regulation 38). A large portion were unsure whether they had compliant documentation at all. This reveals severe national deficiencies in fire-safety handover processes and information governance.
6. Fire Strategy Practice and Competency Challenges
Fire engineers stressed that many current fire strategies are conceptual, outdated, or incomplete. Retrospective fire strategies are often required to determine the true purpose, interdependencies, and coverage of systems. Missing documentation and unrecorded retrofit activity significantly complicate risk assessments.
7. Smart Buildings, BACnet & Legacy System Integration
The forum explored emerging technologies that bridge physical building systems and digital intelligence:
- AI tools that interpret 360° images to classify assets.
- BACnet gateways enabling proprietary legacy BMS systems to function as open, interoperable networks.
These tools allow real-time monitoring and incremental modernisation instead of costly full-system replacement.
8. Awaab’s Law & Damp/Mould Diagnostics
Sensor specialists demonstrated how mould risk correlates with temperature, humidity, and time thresholds. Challenges include:
- lack of occupational competence standards;
- proliferation of unverified “mould experts”;
- increasing regulatory pressure, with expected expansion into the private rented sector.
This domain now requires building physics knowledge, digital diagnostics, and behaviour-aware assessment.
9. International Expansion – Hong Kong & Nigeria Chapters
The Hong Kong chapter is responding to the Tai Po fire with a push for Golden Thread-aligned safety reform. Nigeria reported parallel challenges: fragmented information, inconsistent handover, and structural failures caused by missing lifecycle data. Both nations seek UK expertise to build reliable safety-information frameworks.
10. Volunteer Model & Scaling the Taskforce
The Taskforce continues to grow across universities, NHS estates, housing providers, and international bodies. The forum emphasised the need for volunteers, subject-matter experts, and data specialists to sustain momentum and share best practice globally.
KEY INSIGHTS
- Consistent, structured digital information is essential for Golden Thread compliance.
- Asset findability remains one of the largest operational barriers to safe building management.
- Regulation 38 compliance is critically weak across the UK.
- Fire strategies must reflect as-built information to be valid and useful.
- AI combined with 360° imagery has major potential for improving verification and competence.
- Legacy BMS systems create blind spots unless interoperability tools are adopted.
- Competence frameworks for mould/damp are underdeveloped despite new legislative requirements.
- UK expertise is increasingly in demand worldwide.
- Data integration roles are becoming essential across FM and asset management.
- Volunteer-driven collaboration accelerates innovation and standardisation.
ACTION POINTS
Immediate Actions
- Expand participation across the fire strategy, Smart buildings, damp/mould, and international workstreams.
- Provide clearer guidance and examples for Regulation 38 deliverables.
- Accelerate adoption of 360° evidence capture and AI-based asset-recognition tools.
- Establish a focused data-integration subgroup for BIM/BMS/CAFM/360 alignment.
Medium-Term Actions
- Develop competence frameworks for mould diagnostics, fire-strategy interpretation, and Smart-building systems.
- Build Golden Thread-aligned libraries for asset behaviours and mitigations.
- Strengthen collaboration with universities, NHS estates, housing providers, and international partners.
- Create a dedicated data-integration advisory group.
Long-Term Actions
- Scale Golden Thread Taskforce chapters internationally (Hong Kong, Nigeria, others).
- Create interoperable ecosystems that connect BIM, BMS, CAFM, inspections, and IoT.
- Support incremental modernisation of legacy BMS systems using BACnet transitions.
- Embed AI-enhanced survey methods and digital verification as standard practice.